I recently sat down with casting director Karl Schirnhofer whom I met last summer during the Munich Film Festival where “The Ordinaries,” a film he cast, was being shown. The Ordinaries is a satirically funny sci-fi allegory on social hierarchies where society is divided into leading roles, supporting roles, extras, and outtakes, and it blew my socks off. I highly recommend it.
Karl hails from the Netherlands but has called Berlin his home for almost 10 years now. He got his first taste of casting when, at twenty, he cut his teeth interning with casting director Liza Stutzky. Before that he worked as a production assistant at a film production house that specialized in commercials.
Q. So tell me, how did you get your start as a casting director?
I saw an announcement from the casting director, Ulrike Müller, saying she was looking for a casting assistant and I applied for the job. I spent four and a half years with Ulrike but could also work on my own projects. I was still with Ulrike when I cast, “The Ordinaries.” And then came the time for me to step out into the world on my own, and here I am.
Q. Nice. So that must have been fairly recent.
Honestly, I left Ulrike just about a month ago and now I can concentrate fully on my own projects.
Q. You come from Holland originally, right?
Exactly. I’m dutch but my father comes from Austria so I learned German phonetically. I don’t have a clue about German grammar. You can’t hear it when I make small mistakes when speaking but writing is another story.
Q. Right! I know exactly how you feel but luckily there are a few great software programs to correct lousy grammar.
Exactly!
Q. So what made you decide to work in Germany instead of Holland?
The film market in Germany is just a lot bigger than in Holland. And I just felt at home in Berlin. It made sense to stay. I mean I love Holland, it’s my home, but I came to Berlin when I was eight-teen and didn’t have much of a clue about how the world functioned. I’ve spent my entire adult life here- all of my adult experiences, the friendships that I’ve made and lost… they’re all in Berlin. It just seemed like the logical next step.
Q. So you started casting when you were what, twenty?
Not exactly. I was twenty when I interned with casting director, Liza Stutzky and, right after that I cast two short films on my own. One was thirty minutes and the other was ten minutes. And the thirty-minute film was shown at the Berlinale Perspective German Film. For me, that was a sign that I was on the right track. It was r success story.
But I still had a lot of questions… like how do I break into the casting business on my own? How can I earn enough money? Then I started working at the film production company and that was like being thrown in cold water. I mean, I wasn’t an intern and I had a lot of responsibilities, and a lot to learn — how do I adapt? How should I act in certain situations? But then again, I was doing mostly commercials and that’s a different kind of communication from films. I was surprised I even got the job, but it was good because it taught me a lot.
And then in 2018, I started with Ulrike. And with her, I got a real indepth look at how the casting side of the business works. I learned a lot about what a casting director actually does. Then a year later in 2019, I began casting my own things outside of my work with Ulrike, like “The Ordinaries”.
Then in 2020, I cast another film called, “We Might As Well Be Dead, and that’s when things really started to take off for me. And now this year, all the films that I worked on over the past few years are being shown to the public so now I get to reap the rewards from what I did. Now when someone asks me if I’ve got a film out, I can say, “yeah, that was in theaters, and this is now playing, and that will be coming out soon.”
Q. Having worked with several directors, is there any advice that you would say to a director that might be useful for an actor to know?
I can only speak for myself and how my castings go but for the most part, it’s, not just about the quality of a person’s acting. We generally start the casting process with a large pool of actors, that even sometimes includes non-actors. We then narrow it down to a much smaller circle of actors and invite them to audition. In some cases, we already know the actors well. I mean, we’re familiar with their work through their showreels or recommendations. It’s really a question of can the actor work with that particular director and vice versa.
There has to be an openness from both sides. But for the actor, it’s important to be open to the directors’ suggestions so that you show you can engage with the director and the other actors. Sometimes a director will have a very clear idea of the type of person they want in a particular role… of course you have to be prepared, but let yourself be open to hearing and reacting to what the director is asking of you because if you can’t do that during a casting then it’s not going to work during filming.
It’s being open to being guided. And at the same time, to have enough confidence to be able to add your own input. That’s actually super important. It’s all about balance. Go open into a casting, let yourself be guided [by the director], and when you feel like you’ve understood the director, you can make a few suggestions about things you’d like to try.
Q. That’s good, solid advice. That means you don’t work with self-tapes much then, right?
Sometimes I have to… because the person we want to audition isn’t available or they’re in another country. I prefer, like most people, live castings.
Sometimes when I’m casting a smaller role I’ll look at self-tapes first. It can’t hurt and there’s always the chance that someone will make a really great impression and that can be exciting.
But usually, if someone has piqued my interest with their self-tape then they’ll get a live call callback.
I find self-tapes very useful for the first part of the casting process. It’s really important that when someone does do a self-tape that they put everything into it. Do something – add movement. For example, when you’re auditioning to be a bartender, clean some glasses during your audition. Look for opportunities to do something – build action into the scene or monologue. That’s a huge help for the imagination. I recently had someone send me a self-tape. The scene was supposed to take place at a fairground and the actress acted her scene at the fair. She ended up shooting the scene that we wanted to shoot and that was a huge help. I can’t expect that from everyone. Let’s say this, we didn’t give her preference because she put so much effort into the scene but it was a big help. And you can always clean some glasses.
Q. Yes, that’s always the question, isn’t it? Every casting director is different. Some insist on no distractions – a grey background, natural light – definitely not a ring light. We don’t want to see a ring light reflected in your eyes. And others say, “Do something interesting. Something to make yourself stand out.”
I don’t think it has anything to do with standing out. It’s more about bringing the best audition. If the actor thinks that his best audition is just looking off-camera and speaking, then so be it. But that’s why it’s also really important to be able to see the body language of the actor. It’s what makes live castings better. You get to see everything. But you have to do what you feel comfortable doing. I mean, I’m not an actor.
Q. Let’s take England, for example. The Brits like their auditions to be in closeup, very still… everything should be expressed through the eyes.
I also prefer to have a little more “room” in my auditions. Often I’ll do two takes; one further away and one in closeup. But, I agree it’s essential to see how the body moves through the world. Plus, it’s often through movement that you find your character. Do any auditions come to mind where you were just blown away?
Yeah, but that had everything to do with the acting. The acting was just so good. Sometimes it happens even before the actor begins, right when they first walk in. It’s like an adrenaline kick! “There she is. She is the character that we’ve been looking for.”
I’ve actually been so moved at an audition that I’ve been brought to tears.” That hardly ever even happens to me when I watch a film. Whenever I felt truly blown away it was always because the acting was great and the actor perfectly matched the character we had in our heads. Wait, that’s not entirely true. Sometimes I’ve seen actors that blew me away but they just weren’t right for the part. That happens, too.
Q. Yeah, it’s more about the essence sometimes.
Exactly.
Q. Have you ever felt like an actor was perfect for a role but the director or producers disagreed?
Sort of. I mean, I had conducted auditions for a specific role where I thought a particular actor was just the best actor. The director agreed that he was the best but she felt that the other actor just exuded the essence of the role more. He was the character. In a way, we agreed.
I thought they were both amazing but in the end, it, comes down to nuance and it’s not my film. After I saw the finished film, I thought she had made the perfect choice. She was the one that had to transform what she saw in her head.
Q. Is there anything you think an actor specifically shouldn’t do at an audition?
Hard to say… naturally, some things come to mind but every director is different. What doesn’t work with one director might work great with another. I don’t have any big “no-gos.” Just be open as you go into every audition. Let things happen to you. And be open to input as well.
Q. Are you hoping to work more internationally?
Possibly… I have a system. During the week I only watch German productions and on the weekend, I open it up to international productions. Germany is and will be the place that I know the most about and put most of my efforts into. But, I recently saw 1899. The cast was so good and so international. It inspired me. It was like pouring gas into my motor.
I know a lot about casting productions in Germany but I want to expand my knowledge and be able to work throughout Europe. I’ve begun to take note of a lot of international actors for future reference. But still t, that’s more for the future. I’m just preparing myself so that when the opportunity arises, I’m ready for it.
Q. Speaking of international… You live in a highly cosmopolitan city. Berlin is crazy international. I’ve been in Europe a long time and seen it change so much from when I first got here. The borders have become porous – literally. Things from one country seep into the next. It’s easier for Europeans to live wherever they want in the EU, so they do. They bring their culture with them but they also pick up the culture of their adopted country. So while Europe becomes more international it also loses the things that made it unique. It’s a give-and-take
Yeah. That’s what impressed me so much about 1899. There were so many different languages. And I think that’s where we’re going. Before in American or English films, they would also play the roles of people not from those countries. But now, if a person is supposed to be Dutch then they’re going to find a Dutch actor to play that role. They’ll speak English when it makes sense but they’ll speak Dutch when they’re talking to another Dutch person.
Q. Absolutely. Netflix has changed the way we think about international productions – what we’re willing to accept.
Exactly.
Q. So what does the future look like for you? Are you going to stay in Germany
Actually, that question has become much more active in the last few weeks. If I’m looking into the far future I can definitely imagine working much more internationally. But by international, I mean Europa-wide.
Well, I look forward to seeing more of your work in the next few years. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.
